Hi. I know this is their nature and there may be no answer, but I was just wondering. What makes other birds seek different climate but our pigeons, sparrows and starlings just stay and survive. I'm glad they do. I would certainly miss them.

There are probably a couple of reasons. First off remember that sparrows and starlings are not native to the Americas, they were brought here by European settlers so they would have no inate sense to migrate anywhere. Another reason I can think of is probably the food supply that is available to them in the winter here.

maniac wrote:There are probably a couple of reasons. First off remember that sparrows and starlings are not native to the Americas, they were brought here by European settlers so they would have no inate sense to migrate anywhere. Another reason I can think of is probably the food supply that is available to them in the winter here.

Thank you. It didn't even occur to me that they are not native to the US. I should have thought of that

Great answer Dave, I agree totally with what you said.

maniac wrote:There are probably a couple of reasons. First off remember that sparrows and starlings are not native to the Americas, they were brought here by European settlers so they would have no inate sense to migrate anywhere. Another reason I can think of is probably the food supply that is available to them in the winter here.

I think this is the main reason...the availabity of food in winter. I have been delighted all summer by the swallows that took residence in one of the old out buildings and raised 3 sets of babies. The last set only fledged within the last couple of weeks! They used the same nests that were built last year and it was nice that they accepted our presence as we often have to access this area many times a day. They would go back to roost there at night and they weren't even particularly phased by us shining our headtorches to see them. It was lovely to see the little ones all grow up in the nest. They just migrated sometime last weekend and I'm really missing them. I'm more jealous that they have gone to sunny Africa for the winter while I have to brave it here in the cold and wet.

Jax&Paddy wrote:

maniac wrote:There are probably a couple of reasons. First off remember that sparrows and starlings are not native to the Americas, they were brought here by European settlers so they would have no inate sense to migrate anywhere. Another reason I can think of is probably the food supply that is available to them in the winter here.

I think this is the main reason...the availabity of food in winter. I have been delighted all summer by the swallows that took residence in one of the old out buildings and raised 3 sets of babies. The last set only fledged within the last couple of weeks! They used the same nests that were built last year and it was nice that they accepted our presence as we often have to access this area many times a day. They would go back to roost there at night and they weren't even particularly phased by us shining our headtorches to see them. It was lovely to see the little ones all grow up in the nest. They just migrated sometime last weekend and I'm really missing them. I'm more jealous that they have gone to sunny Africa for the winter while I have to brave it here in the cold and wet.

Hi Lindi.
Thank you for the information. I was wondering how cold it gets during your winters and do you have snow.
I give our pigeons, sparrows and starlings a lot of credit for being able to survive NY winters. Before you know it, it will be winter

coolpige wrote:

Jax&Paddy wrote:

maniac wrote:There are probably a couple of reasons. First off remember that sparrows and starlings are not native to the Americas, they were brought here by European settlers so they would have no inate sense to migrate anywhere. Another reason I can think of is probably the food supply that is available to them in the winter here.

I think this is the main reason...the availabity of food in winter. I have been delighted all summer by the swallows that took residence in one of the old out buildings and raised 3 sets of babies. The last set only fledged within the last couple of weeks! They used the same nests that were built last year and it was nice that they accepted our presence as we often have to access this area many times a day. They would go back to roost there at night and they weren't even particularly phased by us shining our headtorches to see them. It was lovely to see the little ones all grow up in the nest. They just migrated sometime last weekend and I'm really missing them. I'm more jealous that they have gone to sunny Africa for the winter while I have to brave it here in the cold and wet.

Hi Lindi.
Thank you for the information. I was wondering how cold it gets during your winters and do you have snow.I give our pigeons, sparrows and starlings a lot of credit for being able to survive NY winters. Before you know it, it will be winter

Hi Kate,

It does get very cold at times during our winters but we are more likely to have more rain than snow and when it does snow, it doesn't tend to last long. Last winter however was an exception and one of the worst UK winters for about 30 years. Lots of snow and cold temps to keep it there for over a month which is unusual with our climate. I live in a rural area at present and notice that we tend to get more snow than the city which sits on an estuary to the North Sea. One of the nests that the swallows upgraded this year had originally been occupied by wrens last year. We've not seen any wrens this year and think that last winter hit them hard.

Jax&Paddy wrote:

coolpige wrote:

Jax&Paddy wrote:

maniac wrote:There are probably a couple of reasons. First off remember that sparrows and starlings are not native to the Americas, they were brought here by European settlers so they would have no inate sense to migrate anywhere. Another reason I can think of is probably the food supply that is available to them in the winter here.

I think this is the main reason...the availabity of food in winter. I have been delighted all summer by the swallows that took residence in one of the old out buildings and raised 3 sets of babies. The last set only fledged within the last couple of weeks! They used the same nests that were built last year and it was nice that they accepted our presence as we often have to access this area many times a day. They would go back to roost there at night and they weren't even particularly phased by us shining our headtorches to see them. It was lovely to see the little ones all grow up in the nest. They just migrated sometime last weekend and I'm really missing them. I'm more jealous that they have gone to sunny Africa for the winter while I have to brave it here in the cold and wet.

Hi Lindi.
Thank you for the information. I was wondering how cold it gets during your winters and do you have snow.I give our pigeons, sparrows and starlings a lot of credit for being able to survive NY winters. Before you know it, it will be winter

Hi Kate,

It does get very cold at times during our winters but we are more likely to have more rain than snow and when it does snow, it doesn't tend to last long. Last winter however was an exception and one of the worst UK winters for about 30 years. Lots of snow and cold temps to keep it there for over a month which is unusual with our climate. I live in a rural area at present and notice that we tend to get more snow than the city which sits on an estuary to the North Sea. One of the nests that the swallows upgraded this year had originally been occupied by wrens last year. We've not seen any wrens this year and think that last winter hit them hard.

Hi Lindi. Scotland must be beautiful! It seems that the world climate has gone mad. You had one of the worst winters in 30 years. New York's last winter was also one of the worst. The same for the summer. Our July was the hottest on record. It makes me sad to think what the young generation will inherit.

Jax&Paddy wrote:I think this is the main reason...the availabity of food in winter. I have been delighted all summer by the swallows that took residence in one of the old out buildings and raised 3 sets of babies. The last set only fledged within the last couple of weeks! They used the same nests that were built last year and it was nice that they accepted our presence as we often have to access this area many times a day. They would go back to roost there at night and they weren't even particularly phased by us shining our headtorches to see them. It was lovely to see the little ones all grow up in the nest. They just migrated sometime last weekend and I'm really missing them. I'm more jealous that they have gone to sunny Africa for the winter while I have to brave it here in the cold and wet.

Ok....I am getting a little concerned now since I thought our resident swallows had migrated. I hadn't seen them during the day but I discovered on Saturday night that there are still swallows roosting by their former nests in the old outbuilding. Again this evening I noticed first one, then 3 more all lined up inside the building until they got spooked with me staring at them. I guess I am worrying that these are the late juveniles that only fledged a few weeks ago. It is normal for them to migrate from Northern Europe during September and October but I had expected that they would have at least started the journey to Southern areas of the country by now. I know that these birds use climate, daylight changes and availablity of food to guide them to initiate the migratory drive for breeding and wintering but what about young birds? Do they instinctively know where to go? What if the parents have now left and the youngsters have been left behind? It gets dark by 7pm now and I'm worrying that they are not going to migrate in time. All are independent but just how does a juvenile know where and when to migrate? Am I needlessly worrying?

I did find this article in which the author states that it is not uncommon for swallows to have a late brood, but still I think they should be on their way south by now especially since they have been out of the nest for a few weeks now.

http://heritage.scotsman.com/features/Outdoors-The-annual-migration-of.6513715.jp

I've been thinking about this most of the night and it seems stupid to ask these questions since adult swallows were once juveniles themselves and they knew when to migrate when the time was right. I wonder if they relied on their parents for the first migration or is it just a 'bird thing' that they have that innate intuition to know when and where to go?

Surprised to hear they're still there. Hope they move on soon.

Hi Lindi.
I wish I had an answer, but I am also worried. Please keep us up-dated.

Thanks Nick and Kate.

I will be looking out for them and checking that building each evening. The reason I thought they had started the migration a couple of weeks ago was because they had been very active during the day, then it appeared that there were about 10 of them swooping and darting all over the fields as they do when they are catching insects on the wing. I took this as a sign that they were starting to group together to start the migratory journey. I had been initially concerned that the latest young brood wouldn't fledge in time but once I knew they'd left the nest I felt relieved that the parents were sticking around for another week or two to teach the youngsters those all important survival skills before heading south. I haven't seen any swallow activity throughout the day now unless I am missing them and this is why I thought they had gone. The only reason I have seen them in the old piggery building at night is when we take our disabled cat Horace to his toileting area. The birds haven't reacted in the slightest when he is in there or when we've disturbed them with our head torches when waiting for Horace. They had 3 rounds of babies in there this year and it seemed that they were ok with our presence most of the time since we were just passing through to minimise disturbing them. The building has had open access at either end since the start of Spring so we've been used to seeing them flying in one end and out the other throughout the day during their busy summer raising young. Maybe they just don't want to leave!

I shall keep you up to date with events and hope that I can finally say they have left for their journey south soon.

Fingers crossed. Alternatively I imagine you'll be adopting more lost critters.

capthunter wrote:Fingers crossed. Alternatively I imagine you'll be adopting more lost critters.

I can't adopt them. They won't survive the winter if they don't leave soon. This is why I am so worried about them. They are insectivorous and will have limited or no food supply soon. From what I've read online, it is a real problem with these birds (Swifts and Housemartins also) that there are so many late broods at this time of year which really doesn't do them any favours in giving them the best start to make the perilous journey to warmer climes.

I didn't know that. Then I shall continue to hope they move on quickly.

Good news I hope!!

I think they left today. I last checked their roosting spot at 7pm tonight when it was getting pretty dark and there were no swallows to be seen. There is some warmer air over the UK just now and I think they took advantage of this. The temperature was around 16 degrees C and fairly sunny most of the day. The temps are a bit warmer in southern areas of the country. They probably knew this and were just waiting for the right conditions to start their journey. I will check again later this evening just to be sure..and tomorrow..and the next day.

Glad to hear it Lindi. Here's hoping they have indeed flown the coop.

capthunter wrote:Glad to hear it Lindi. Here's hoping they have indeed flown the coop.

I will certainly second that!!

Here's to the migration!

Love and Hugs

Shi