I realize this topic is a very subjective topic, but I wanted to put it to the forum. I have a young red bar piebald bird that was born 05-26-08. It is out of Smokey, my red check cock that carries blue and Flashy, a blue check piebald hen. According to the Slobberknocker color chart, the daughters that come out of such a mating will be 50% blues and 50% reds. The sons will be 50% blues and 50% reds that carry blue. Based on that, I believed this bird was a hen. I inspected it's feathers and there was no sign of blue in it's tail feathers or flights. That should point to the bird being a hen.

This evening, after I fed the birds, I stayed in the loft, just to watch them and their interaction with each other. I heard what I thought was a cock bird cooing and struting on a perch and when I looked up, it was this little red bar piebald. It was acting like a cock for all it was worth. Smokey, it's father was on the perch next to it and it didn't take him long to run him off the perch and take over. The younger bird flew down to the floor and then right back up to a spot fairly close to that of his father.

The question I have is this. Would it be normal for a young hen to be acting like this? I wouldn't think so, but I honestly do not know the answer. What have you noticed in your own lofts?

I have seen this happen before. I specifically remember a bird from 2006. I sent "him" to the first five races in the cocks shipping basket. "He" acted like a cock and would even fight with the cocks in the shipping crate. Then, the sixth week, "he" laid an egg.
I had another little red bird back in 2002. We had just moved here and my birds were down in the garage. Cocks on one side and hens on the other. Little Red, as he was named, chased the hens if I put him on their side. If I put him with the cocks, they chased HIM unmercifully. I must have moved him between the two sections about 4 or 5 times before I finally decided he was a cock and I was right. He had me going for a while though. They can fool you.

Lovebirds wrote:I have seen this happen before. I specifically remember a bird from 2006. I sent "him" to the first five races in the cocks shipping basket. "He" acted like a cock and would even fight with the cocks in the shipping crate. Then, the sixth week, "he" laid an egg.
I had another little red bird back in 2002. We had just moved here and my birds were down in the garage. Cocks on one side and hens on the other. Little Red, as he was named, chased the hens if I put him on their side. If I put him with the cocks, they chased HIM unmercifully. I must have moved him between the two sections about 4 or 5 times before I finally decided he was a cock and I was right. He had me going for a while though. They can fool you.

I would think a little over two months old would not be old enough for a bird to start "showing" himself. I wa just out in the loft and the bird was at it again, cooing and struting around on it's perch like it owned the entire loft. Because of the lack of any sign of blue in the tail, I am going to stick with it being a she, until she proves otherwise.

Actually, we need to find out about the blue in the tail.
If a bird HAS blue flecks, then it's a cock, but if it DOESN'T have blue flecks, that doesn't necessarily mean that's it a hen. Is that right?
A hen won't have the blue flecks but a cock could "not have" blue flecks too.

Lovebirds wrote:Actually, we need to find out about the blue in the tail.
If a bird HAS blue flecks, then it's a cock, but if it DOESN'T have blue flecks, that doesn't necessarily mean that's it a hen. Is that right?
A hen won't have the blue flecks but a cock could "not have" blue flecks too.

From my understanding of the color chart, if the red birds from such a mating has the blue flecks, then it has to be a cock. If it doesn't have the blue flecks, then it has to be a hen. Here is the link to the chart I am going by.

http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/color_chart/

I stand corrected on the bird not having blue flecks in the tail. I just went out to the loft and caught HIM again and sure enough, when I spread the tail out, not only are the blue flecks there, they are quite numerous. So maybe the bird knows what he is after all.

In the above mentioned mating, all of the ash red cock birds will have flecks because they will all be split for blue. If you mated one of these ash red split birds to an ash red hen, some of the young cocks would be pure ash red and would not have flecks.

As to the behavior, some hens can act alittle cocky and fool us but I've never seen any hen that chased (courted) all hens in the way that cock birds have the tendency to do. Hens will act more this way, bowing, hopping etc. prior to breeding but it is more likely to be for the benefit of a male than a female. If they both have the same posture, they might both be hens. The hens stand tall, chest out with wings slightly raised. The cocks do something similar but they will be more likely to actually open their wings and flap them to some extent. This is all pre mating stuff and the motions are very similar to what goes on when they actually do breed. Pigeon foreplay.

The way that cock birds show off for every hen, shoving into them and sometimes trying to step on them are very male things and won't be completely copied by any hen. I have never seen any hen go to the extent of foolishness and silliness that the cock birds do. It is an accumulation of silly events and alot of cooing that should tell us once and for all that the bird is male. Just alittle bit of acting like a male doesn't mean much.

DynaB, you already figured yours out. These ramblings of mine just stemmed from the discussion.

Bill

jbangelfish wrote:In the above mentioned mating, all of the ash red cock birds will have flecks because they will all be split for blue. If you mated one of these ash red split birds to an ash red hen, some of the young cocks would be pure ash red and would not have flecks.

As to the behavior, some hens can act alittle cocky and fool us but I've never seen any hen that chased (courted) all hens in the way that cock birds have the tendency to do. Hens will act more this way, bowing, hopping etc. prior to breeding but it is more likely to be for the benefit of a male than a female. If they both have the same posture, they might both be hens. The hens stand tall, chest out with wings slightly raised. The cocks do something similar but they will be more likely to actually open their wings and flap them to some extent. This is all pre mating stuff and the motions are very similar to what goes on when they actually do breed. Pigeon foreplay.

The way that cock birds show off for every hen, shoving into them and sometimes trying to step on them are very male things and won't be completely copied by any hen. I have never seen any hen go to the extent of foolishness and silliness that the cock birds do. It is an accumulation of silly events and alot of cooing that should tell us once and for all that the bird is male. Just alittle bit of acting like a male doesn't mean much.

DynaB, you already figured yours out. These ramblings of mine just stemmed from the discussion.

Bill

The more ramblings the better, Bill. I was under the impression, going off the Slobberknocker color chart that half of the cocks would be all red and half would be split for blue. Is this not correct?

DynaBMan wrote:I stand corrected on the bird not having blue flecks in the tail. I just went out to the loft and caught HIM again and sure enough, when I spread the tail out, not only are the blue flecks there, they are quite numerous. So maybe the bird knows what he is after all.

Lovebirds wrote:

DynaBMan wrote:I stand corrected on the bird not having blue flecks in the tail. I just went out to the loft and caught HIM again and sure enough, when I spread the tail out, not only are the blue flecks there, they are quite numerous. So maybe the bird knows what he is after all.

As long as Mr. P (the bird's name) knows what he is, then I am okay. If he gets mixed up, then we will have a problem.

DynaBMan wrote:

jbangelfish wrote:In the above mentioned mating, all of the ash red cock birds will have flecks because they will all be split for blue. If you mated one of these ash red split birds to an ash red hen, some of the young cocks would be pure ash red and would not have flecks.

As to the behavior, some hens can act alittle cocky and fool us but I've never seen any hen that chased (courted) all hens in the way that cock birds have the tendency to do. Hens will act more this way, bowing, hopping etc. prior to breeding but it is more likely to be for the benefit of a male than a female. If they both have the same posture, they might both be hens. The hens stand tall, chest out with wings slightly raised. The cocks do something similar but they will be more likely to actually open their wings and flap them to some extent. This is all pre mating stuff and the motions are very similar to what goes on when they actually do breed. Pigeon foreplay.

The way that cock birds show off for every hen, shoving into them and sometimes trying to step on them are very male things and won't be completely copied by any hen. I have never seen any hen go to the extent of foolishness and silliness that the cock birds do. It is an accumulation of silly events and alot of cooing that should tell us once and for all that the bird is male. Just alittle bit of acting like a male doesn't mean much.

DynaB, you already figured yours out. These ramblings of mine just stemmed from the discussion.

Bill

The more ramblings the better, Bill. I was under the impression, going off the Slobberknocker color chart that half of the cocks would be all red and half would be split for blue. Is this not correct?

I think you misread something. I don't see where it says half would be red and not split. Anyway, the cocks will all be split for blue and will show black flecks. If mom was ash red also, then you would get some pure ash red cocks that would not be split for blue (approx. half of them).

Bill

I think you misread something. I don't see where it says half would be red and not split. Anyway, the cocks will all be split for blue and will show black flecks. If mom was ash red also, then you would get some pure ash red cocks that would not be split for blue (approx. half of them).

Bill

This link
http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/color_chart/

The four row down in the color chart. I am not saying it is correct, but that is what it says.

DynaBMan wrote:

I think you misread something. I don't see where it says half would be red and not split. Anyway, the cocks will all be split for blue and will show black flecks. If mom was ash red also, then you would get some pure ash red cocks that would not be split for blue (approx. half of them).

Bill

This link
http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/color_chart/

The four row down in the color chart. I am not saying it is correct, but that is what it says.

It says that in a mating of ash red split blue cock to blue hen, you will get ash red cocks that are split for blue and you will get blue cocks. It also says you will get both ash red and blue hens, of course none of them are split for anything. It is correct. Bob knows this stuff very well and is saying the same as I did, I just didn't say what you got for hens because they don't carry blue. They are ash red or blue in this case. I was only talking about the ash red cock birds produced from this mating, which would all be split for blue. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Bill

jbangelfish wrote:

DynaBMan wrote:

I think you misread something. I don't see where it says half would be red and not split. Anyway, the cocks will all be split for blue and will show black flecks. If mom was ash red also, then you would get some pure ash red cocks that would not be split for blue (approx. half of them).

Bill

This link
http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/color_chart/

The four row down in the color chart. I am not saying it is correct, but that is what it says.

It says that in a mating of ash red split blue cock to blue hen, you will get ash red cocks that are split for blue and you will get blue cocks. It also says you will get both ash red and blue hens, of course none of them are split for anything. It is correct. Bob knows this stuff very well and is saying the same as I did, I just didn't say what you got for hens because they don't carry blue. They are ash red or blue in this case. I was only talking about the ash red cock birds produced from this mating, which would all be split for blue. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Bill

I see what you are saying now, Bill. You and I were saying the same thing, but I misunderstood what you were saying. I was confused, but it was my own fault.