I am wondering what to do with a pigeon that was poisend but is still alive after 3 days. He will not eat and can not fly. I am not sure what to do. There are no rescues that will take a pigeon that I know of in the Las Vegas area. :cry:

amandamilline wrote:I am wondering what to do with a pigeon that was poisend but is still alive after 3 days. He will not eat and can not fly. I am not sure what to do. There are no rescues that will take a pigeon that I know of in the Las Vegas area. :cry:

Hello there,

Do you know for sure the pigeon was poisoned? If so, offer lots of water (distilled if you can) and no food for the time being and to try to flush out any remaining poison from it's body. Any other symptoms that the bird is showing?

There is a member here in fact, from Las Vegas who would probably love to take this pigeon from you, he's a rehab guy. He should be along shortly.

Amandaminne,

I will see if I can contact Phil who is in Las Vegas. He can either advise you or take the bird to try and save it.

Peaches

amandamilline wrote:I am wondering what to do with a pigeon that was poisend but is still alive after 3 days. He will not eat and can not fly. I am not sure what to do. There are no rescues that will take a pigeon that I know of in the Las Vegas area. :cry:

Hi amandamillne,


I'd be glad to give it a try, if you can get him to me.


I am Downtown, right off I-15 and Charleston


I will PM you my telephone number



Phil
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Hello there,

Do you know for sure the pigeon was poisoned? If so, offer lots of water (distilled if you can) and no food for the time being and to try to flush out any remaining poison from it's body. Any other symptoms that the bird is showing?

There is a member here in fact, from Las Vegas who would probably love to take this pigeon from you, he's a rehab guy. He should be along shortly.

Hi Brad,



Sadly, allowing them to drink can cause them to perish, even when they might have muddled through otherwise.


This is especially true with 'Avitrol' and others which use the impregnated, large 'Corn' Kernals.


A PIigeon might have say, a half full Crop of these 'Kernals'...and, be showing very serious signs of poisoning - overly 'vivid',. panting fast, standing tall and being not esponsive to immediate things...spasms, 'spells' or 'fits' or 'thrashing'...the Pigeo may feel really 'Hot'...often they will throw up some of the large Corn Kernals, also.


With-holding Water, his Crop will pass approximately 'dry' Corn, and pass them slowly, at a steady rate, and his system will be dealing with a load or concentration of a steady, sub-lethal level, for a day or so...day and a half...and however it is they process or eal with the poison, they can manage this way, an survive.


Then, he has got it all passed, and gets over it...an in a couple ays, you' never know anything ha happenne.


Given Water, or allowed to drink, the Water in the Crop, leaches out the permiated Poison in the Corn Kernals, far ahead of what the concentration would have been if his system was dealing with them slowly and semi-dry...where with Water, not only does his system process the Corn faster, but, by the leaching of what is still in the Crop, a lethal dose occurs, in advance of his even getting his Crop emptied of them.


So, as far as I have seen or made a mental 'Model' of this, usually, possibly always, we do best to with-hold Water from suspected Poison Pigons...at least prospectively, pending further diagnosis or investigations to decide what we are looing at.



Now too, usually, when someone thinks thy have a 'poisoned' Pigeon, when brought to me, it turns out to be other issus, such as PPMV, 'Static' or non-passing, liquid filled, food and liquid filled Candida Crops, Canker, Canker and Candida, Hit by Car and sort of 'out of it' forthe time being if standing, or, a total mystery with the Pigeon just being sort of Catatonic for a few days, which then passes, and with no idea what was going on with him.


Usually, a Poisoned Pigeon will have an odor which seems to come out of their Body...this can smell like burnt sugar sort of, or other things, depending on what Poison it is.


Canker Pigeons also, usually have a unique odor, but I do not know what to compare it to or how to describe it.


Phil
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Hi Phil,

Yes, I suppose there are other variables to think about, and those might be dependent on the means of poisoning. The reason I suggested water was not only to hydrate the bird in case it was dehydrated, but also to draw out any toxins and distilled water is especially good for this.

Have you heard back from this person or did they contact you about the bird?

Hi Brad,




Yes, we did some 'PM-ing'...


They are intending to call around 'Six' when they get home from Work...



There are of course many very different kinds of things a Pigeon or other Bird could get poisoned by, in which formal 'Avicides' are possibly the most common for any urban or suburban areas.


This makes it impossible to draw any general rules for what-to-do, other than basic supportive care, since differing 'poisons' will require different address, pre-cautions, or regimens.



Water should be with-held for any Organo-Phosphates, which 'Avitrol' and a few others, have for their active ingredient, usually, soaking large yellow Corn Kernals then drying them for use.


A dehydrated Pigeon, having eaten these, if allowed to drink, would die even sooner and more violently than a non-dehydrated Pigeon who would die in an hour or two if allowed to drink.

Either, could live, if Water is with-held, provided they had not already digested past a lethal dose in whatever time frame their system has fo itself, for what a 'lethal' dose would be.

In other words, for the 'Avitrol' or other Organophosphates, a slowly emptying Crop, and a slowsteady digestion of the Poisoned Corn, means a slow steady rate of poison over time, which their system ( in some cases anyway, ) can handle...if Water is in the Crop, then it leaches out the Poison from the Corn Kernals, and drains into their Stomach and on to their intestines, bringing in the Poison at a rate which exceeds the Pigeon's ( any Pigeon's at this point ) system's ability to deal with or handle it, and, it then kills the Pigeon.




Even if we feel a Pigeon is dehydrated, if they have eaten the 'Avitrol' Corn, we should absolutely not let them drink till their Crop is empty, and their system has passed all the Corn Kernals as poop.


Many margainally just-barely-above-dieing Pigeons can survive that way, where, if allowed Water, they would definitely die.


Now, in theory anyway, if a Pigeon has a Crop full of this 'Corn', and if one is very careful and observant of several things, one can upwardly 'massage' a couple Kernals at a time, up his Neck, and out his Beak...and, doing so, one or two at a time, finally get it all out.


And then, possibly, do a Saline-Charcoal-powder flush and either leave that in, adding a little Vallium ( dosed as per the patient's weight of course ) if one has any handy, and then, in a few hours, let him Drink, and he ought to be alright and make it through just fine, even if effected somewhat for a day or two.


Pigeons who drank from 'Antifreeze' puddles, Pigeons who ate 'Snail Bait', Pigeons sprayed with Insecticides or who drank from puddles heavily containing Insecticides or Herbicides , and who knows how many other possible poisoning scenareos they are, I do not know, but, unless one can figure out what it is, to then find out what-to-do for it, there are no rules which would govern what to do to help them, other than maybe, Activated Charcoal, and or, getting the Crop safely "empty" of however much of the stuff is still in the Crop.


Possibly, some scenarios would recommend lots of Water, and or letting them drink all the like...or will have proper Antidotes one could administer ( as for exaple, 'Warfarin' would, the Antidote being Vitamine 'K' ) but in other scenarios, we have to make sure they do not get any Water for a day or so...



Best wishes..!


Phil
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Hi Phil,

Good information to have that you've outlined in your post. I'm also glad that the person has been in contact with you...hopefully the pigeon will get to you so you can assess the situation and administer an appropriate treatment.

No idea whats going on...


Waiting for them to call, and, we'd agreed they would call at 'six', so...possibly they had some delays...


Fingers crossed...


Phil
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Well...


Never heard from them


Phil
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