Carol on Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:10 pmI am new at this and need some advice on Apple Cider Vinegar. I went to the nutrition store to possible purchase some natural ACV and theirs had 11 mg of sodium. My question is can I use ACV which is Heinz made fron the juice of apples diluted with water 5% acidity until I can get some from the pigeon supply store. I did notice at the Pigeon supply store theirs were 4% acidity and to be give only for three days and you dilute it in a gallon of water. Thanks in advance for any info you can give me...
Advice on ACV (Apple cider vinegar)
Carol- Wise Bird
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Desert Fire- Our Angel in Heaven
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Others will be along to give their opinions.
Because of what I've read from the members, they feel that ACV with the "mother" is the best. "Mother" is the beneficial microrganisms that turn alcohol to vinegar. The "mother" is merely the sign of genuine natural unpasturized vinegar. I bought my bottle at my health food store. It's made from organic apples under the Spectrum brand name and is also unfiltered. It's been diluted with water to 5% acidity. Also contains 0mg sodium, 1g sugar and 1g carborhydrates. Bragg's is another brand.
Some mix 1 - 3 Tablespoons to a gallon of water, depending on whether they are using to treat something or not. I usually just use 1 - 3 drops in their water container a few times a week. I also keep my bottle in the refrigerator.
Hope this helps...
Hugs
Shi
Because of what I've read from the members, they feel that ACV with the "mother" is the best. "Mother" is the beneficial microrganisms that turn alcohol to vinegar. The "mother" is merely the sign of genuine natural unpasturized vinegar. I bought my bottle at my health food store. It's made from organic apples under the Spectrum brand name and is also unfiltered. It's been diluted with water to 5% acidity. Also contains 0mg sodium, 1g sugar and 1g carborhydrates. Bragg's is another brand.
Some mix 1 - 3 Tablespoons to a gallon of water, depending on whether they are using to treat something or not. I usually just use 1 - 3 drops in their water container a few times a week. I also keep my bottle in the refrigerator.
Hope this helps...
Hugs
Shi
Carol- Wise Bird
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Desert Fire Shi Thank you, I am so confused on this ACV. I went to a nutrition store and they had the ACV with the mother, but the sodium was high and that is what confused me. I have also gone out on the internet and you just would not believe what is out there on ACV. It goes on from the ph of the water to summer and winter and the stomach to the intestines. I would like to give my pidgey some. Per Jedd's Pigeon Supply they have ACV and said to give it for three days and dilute with a gallon of water.. 4% acidity. Refrigerate is a good idea too !
A few times a week sounds good too... I really feel my boy which I think he is not sure good use some.. OH MY !!!
Yes, you did help me, THANK YOU SHI....
If I may say hugs back
A few times a week sounds good too... I really feel my boy which I think he is not sure good use some.. OH MY !!!
Yes, you did help me, THANK YOU SHI....
If I may say hugs back
Brad- Administrator
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I use Braggs myself, it's a very well known and recommended brand.
It's available from many of the pigeon supply stores or you can probably pick it up at a grocery store or health food store. I used to order it from the USA from Foys Pigeon Supplies, silly me. 
Then I found out it's sold locally here at many of the health food stores.
Good stuff, with the "mother" in it.
It's available from many of the pigeon supply stores or you can probably pick it up at a grocery store or health food store. I used to order it from the USA from Foys Pigeon Supplies, silly me. Then I found out it's sold locally here at many of the health food stores. Good stuff, with the "mother" in it.
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Carol- Wise Bird
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Thank you Shi & Brad
I did see Braggs at the Nutrition store. Actually they had two kinds and I was not sure which one to use. I think I know now. One had mother and 0mg sodium and unfiltered. I am going back today and get the ACV even though it is raining cats and dogs. At least it is not snowing Santa and Reindeers here yet..... Thank you both for replying.
Carol
I did see Braggs at the Nutrition store. Actually they had two kinds and I was not sure which one to use. I think I know now. One had mother and 0mg sodium and unfiltered. I am going back today and get the ACV even though it is raining cats and dogs. At least it is not snowing Santa and Reindeers here yet..... Thank you both for replying.
Carol
Brad- Administrator
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Hi Everyone...
Ok, Carol PM'd me about what she found out about the ACV that was at the health food store she went to. Here is what she said to me and mentioned:
Hi Carol,
This is interesting but not surprising. Potassium (a form of sodium) is a key mineral in nearly all animals ability to function properly. I'm not an expert on these things but, I think it is mostly irrelevant here. The mislabeling isn't very good though and certainly not a confidence booster for people who are careful.
Anyway, I think that you would have been fine with the product that you initially saw. No matter though, you're very concerned, conscientious and rightly so!
Re: the powdered calcium...I'm using a liquid based calcium and mineral supplement for the most part in hopes of improving the condition of the eggs layed by Lucy. I did however purchase some oyster shell (derivative based) tabs to give the birds orally. Oyster shell is supposedly one of the best souces of calcium for birds, in whatever form.
I do appreciate your mention and again, I'm certainly not an expert myself...but just hoping for the best with the products that I'll be using now.
Thanks Carol and hope you don't mind me posting what you sent to me in PM. It wasn't easy to find your thread, but I felt the topic should continue with further discussion.
I also edited the original title of your post to hopefully make it easier to find again in the future.
Ok, Carol PM'd me about what she found out about the ACV that was at the health food store she went to. Here is what she said to me and mentioned:
Carol wrote:Hi Brad, hope you do not mine me emailing you by PM....
Regarding
the ACV Braggs... I went back to the nutrition store and they still had
the mis-labelled bottles on the shelf.... which I thought was
interesting. They told me that they were mis-labelled and the correct
ingredients was 11 mg of potassium not sodium, even though the small
bottle label had 11 mg potassium and the large had 11 mg sodium... Well
that was that. I came home and went out on the Braggs site and looked
up the ACV they show the label and it clearly read 11 mg potassium.
If I remember correctly reading about sodium/salt for birds could
damage or shut the kidneys down... I could be wrong, but this is why I
had a red flag flashed in my mind and why I did not buy the product...
In my travels their are several other nutrition stores around and I am
going to check them. My food stores here does not sell that product.
(Braggs). What is also interesting, I purchased ACV from Jedd's pigeon
supply store and recd the product, but it does not show the ingredients
it just reads .."Jedds Red Apply Cider Natural Vinegar specifically
formulated for Jedds to an even strength of 4% acidity. It's special
blend helps prevent the formation of bacterial infections keeping the
bird from reaching top condition." ?keeping ..the bird.. from reaching.. top condition...
THAT IS WHAT IT READS I have the bottle in front of me at this moment.
I just thought it was interesting. I am sure it does not matter to much
and any of the ACV is fine. I guess it is just the principle of the
matter and the mis-labelling is what perturbed me. I just get my
curiosity up and need to find the answer.... (All this just for ACV)
Something
else, re: calcium for your pigeon.... per my husbands pulmonologist he
is giving him a powered form of calcium due to taking prednisone. He
has found that the powdered form absorbs better into the system than a
tablet... just food for thought re your situation.
If you care
to put this out on the site any of the above that is fine. I just could
not find where we discussed it and wanted to be sure you read this...
Brad, you should be proud your site is just doing GREAT !!!
Hi Carol,
This is interesting but not surprising. Potassium (a form of sodium) is a key mineral in nearly all animals ability to function properly. I'm not an expert on these things but, I think it is mostly irrelevant here. The mislabeling isn't very good though and certainly not a confidence booster for people who are careful.
Anyway, I think that you would have been fine with the product that you initially saw. No matter though, you're very concerned, conscientious and rightly so!
Re: the powdered calcium...I'm using a liquid based calcium and mineral supplement for the most part in hopes of improving the condition of the eggs layed by Lucy. I did however purchase some oyster shell (derivative based) tabs to give the birds orally. Oyster shell is supposedly one of the best souces of calcium for birds, in whatever form.
I do appreciate your mention and again, I'm certainly not an expert myself...but just hoping for the best with the products that I'll be using now.
Thanks Carol and hope you don't mind me posting what you sent to me in PM. It wasn't easy to find your thread, but I felt the topic should continue with further discussion.
I also edited the original title of your post to hopefully make it easier to find again in the future. _____________________________________
Yours truly,
Brad with Ricki and Glimmer
Ed- Racing Pigeon Mod
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Carol wrote:Thank you Shi & Brad
I did see Braggs at the Nutrition store. Actually they had two kinds and I was not sure which one to use. I think I know now. One had mother and 0mg sodium and unfiltered. I am going back today and get the ACV even though it is raining cats and dogs. At least it is not snowing Santa and Reindeers here yet..... Thank you both for replying.
Carol
have looked HIGH AND LOW
I can not find any of that brand of ACV
I have been using just regular old ACV in their water.
I usually put it out on Sunday and let them drink from that all day Sunday ANd change it Monday when I get home from work.
Is that OK?
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Maggie- Our Angel in Heaven
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Ed, I don't see anything wrong with using regular ACV. We did for a long time before getting Braggs. I think most people like the Braggs because it has the "mother" in it.
I do think though that I would change the water on Sunday evening or Monday morning rather than let it go over to the Monday evening. Probably nothing wrong with it but I just like to change the water everyday especially if we've added something to it.
I do think though that I would change the water on Sunday evening or Monday morning rather than let it go over to the Monday evening. Probably nothing wrong with it but I just like to change the water everyday especially if we've added something to it.
Carol- Wise Bird
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Hi Ed.... Braggs ACV you can find it at a nutrition store... you know where they sell vitamins, etc. around here we have GNC, you should have some of those in your area... None of my food stores here sell that brand.... I purchased it through Jedds Pigeon supply.... which is their brand, and I do keep it in the refrig per Shi, cause that is what she does and I thought it was a good idea... me with just one bird... I would have it forever.. per Renee like she said give for couples of days and than just plain water.... The regiment I started since I got the ACV, I have been giving it for two - three days and go back with plain water and I also give her vitamins so I just alternate...
Per my posts out there per Shi and Renee's comments and Brads I think it is okay, but I do know it should be the apple cider vinegar if I am correct.. per the bottle that I got from the pigeon supply place the bottle stated to use two tablespoons per gallon of water and it is natural red apple vinegar cider. I do change the water actually twice a day. In the evening I just give her plain water, but you have to remember I only have one bird...
I just got so frustrated with the GNC store and started to investigate and just decided to order from the pigeon supply store only because I was apprehensive to use the brand they had due to the ingredient error...
I really enjoy researching things and should record my findings better so I can back-up my findings.
Per my posts out there per Shi and Renee's comments and Brads I think it is okay, but I do know it should be the apple cider vinegar if I am correct.. per the bottle that I got from the pigeon supply place the bottle stated to use two tablespoons per gallon of water and it is natural red apple vinegar cider. I do change the water actually twice a day. In the evening I just give her plain water, but you have to remember I only have one bird...
I just got so frustrated with the GNC store and started to investigate and just decided to order from the pigeon supply store only because I was apprehensive to use the brand they had due to the ingredient error...
I really enjoy researching things and should record my findings better so I can back-up my findings.
