Today, I had my first baby pigeon of the breeding season. Very late I know but I just took over the flock from my son in March or so.

Anyway, dad pigeon is yellow which is dilute. Mom pigeon is black which is not dilute. The first baby born, I know is a male because he has long down and is therefore not dilute. He also has a dark beak already. This is the application of one of the simple rules of genetics. Dilute male to non dilute female always produces dilute females and non dilute males that carry the dilute gene. It is a sex linked recessive gene. That's cool stuff, I already know which baby is the male and he is less than 24 hours old.

I am going to pay attention to which was born first whenever I can. I have suspected before that the male chick might always hatch first and have read a post by someone else who had heard that this was the case. I am still not sure as I used to keep too many pigeons to keep track but I only have 16 pair of pigeons and will pay attention to this strange possible phenomenon.

Bill

Hey, well, I get confused with that stuff so quickly, but I am so gald that you explained it. I don't think that would appy to my white birds, tho. Heck, they all look the same to me! Sue

Snowbird Sue wrote:Hey, well, I get confused with that stuff so quickly, but I am so gald that you explained it. I don't think that would appy to my white birds, tho. Heck, they all look the same to me! Sue

Nope, whites are likely to all look the same in the nest and even after for that matter. There could actually be dilutes among whites but the only time they would look any different is before they got feathers as they would have short thin down. Most white pigeons are actually ash red grizzles that were bred together until they became completely white. There are exceptions but few.

Bill

jbangelfish wrote:

Snowbird Sue wrote:Hey, well, I get confused with that stuff so quickly, but I am so gald that you explained it. I don't think that would appy to my white birds, tho. Heck, they all look the same to me! Sue

Nope, whites are likely to all look the same in the nest and even after for that matter. There could actually be dilutes among whites but the only time they would look any different is before they got feathers as they would have short thin down. Most white pigeons are actually ash red grizzles that were bred together until they became completely white. There are exceptions but few.

Bill

That sounds familiar I seem to remeber hearing that somewhere else, but still don't see where the whites are red ... This just might be a blonde thing!!! :lol:

Snowbird Sue wrote:

jbangelfish wrote:

Snowbird Sue wrote:Hey, well, I get confused with that stuff so quickly, but I am so gald that you explained it. I don't think that would appy to my white birds, tho. Heck, they all look the same to me! Sue

Nope, whites are likely to all look the same in the nest and even after for that matter. There could actually be dilutes among whites but the only time they would look any different is before they got feathers as they would have short thin down. Most white pigeons are actually ash red grizzles that were bred together until they became completely white. There are exceptions but few.

Bill

That sounds familiar I seem to remeber hearing that somewhere else, but still don't see where the whites are red ... This just might be a blonde thing!!! :lol:

It's just one of those odd facts of pigeon genetics and is the easiest way to produce a pure white bird. You can test mate them to another color to prove it out as both ash red and grizzle are dominant genes.

Bill

so does it work visa-versa? like:

Male (Non-Dilute)+Female (Dilute)=Female(Non-Dilute), Male (Dilute)?


Do I have a pair that your theory will work with? Male is white and brown grizzle and a hen that is pure black heres a pic

Neither of those birds are dilute. But anyway, no it doesn't work in reverse, sorry

Intense cockbird x dilute hen = 100% intense kids, and the cockbirds will carry dilute
Intense cockbird (carrying dilute) x dilute hen = 50% dilute children of both sexes, 50% intense children (intense sons will carry dilute)
Intense cockbird (carrying dilute) x intense hen = Half of the hens will be dilute and the rest of the offspring will be intense (with half of the sons carrying dilute, other half will not)

Thanks for helping Dammo, Becky. We need you and Pete around to help answer the genetics questions and both of your advice is really appreciated.

if its not a hassle could you please tell me what colours are dilute and non-dilute?


Sorry for the trouble, this is just really interesting

And what does all this intense % mean? i dont get it hahhahaa

Color Dilute
Blue Bar / Silver Bar
Blue Check / Silver Check
Black / Dun
Ash-Red (Mealy) Bar / Ash-Yellow (Cream) Bar
Red Check / Cream or Yellow Check
Lavender or Strawberry / Spread Cream (Spread Ash-Yellow)
Brown Bar / Khaki Bar
Brown Check / Khaki Check
Spread Brown / Spread Khaki
Recessive Red / Recessive Yellow

Silver Bar (main colour is silver and she has brown and blue bars) hen

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb364/Dammo/DSC03476.jpg[/img]

Blue Bar (standard) cock

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb364/Dammo/DSC03475.jpg

What does the Blue Bar/Silver mean? i still dont get it sorry hahahaa

Dammo, what dilution basically does is to cut the amount of the pigment which is put into a growing feather by about half. Exactly why this pigment reduction takes place is something that ,I believe, still unknown . I would say it is just a mutation.

By intense, I meant normal colored or non-dilute

Dilute blue = silver
Dilute ash-red = ash-yellow
Dilute brown = khaki
Dilute black = dun
Dilute spread ash-red (lavender) = No official name for it although it is often called cream. Which can be misleading because people also call ash-yellow "cream".
Dilute spread brown = spread khaki
Dilute recessive red = recessive yellow
Dilute bronze = sulphur

Dammo wrote:Silver Bar (main colour is silver and she has brown and blue bars) hen

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb364/Dammo/DSC03476.jpg[/img]

Blue Bar (standard) cock

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb364/Dammo/DSC03475.jpg

What does the Blue Bar/Silver mean? i still dont get it sorry hahahaa

The brown color in the bars of the hen is bronze Which with dilute turns it that yellowy color. Does she have a tail bar?

So she is Dilute? no she doesnt have the bars on her tail feathers.

A picture of the bird would be good showing the whole bird including the tail.

wing

tail

whole

What a pretty bird..

c.hert wrote:What a pretty bird..

she is missing two tail feathers. She looks even better when she has the full 12.

I am kidding of course for I know nothing of genetics---she is a brindled bar cream puff,,,lol